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crestline
    10/08/08 at 04:54 AM#1

http://www.tipatinnitus.com/
DrNagler
    10/08/08 at 08:51 AM#2
Over the years there have been a variety of attempts at prolonging residual inhibition, which is the suppression of the tinnitus sound for a period of time after presentation and cessation of an auditory stimulus.

Many of those attempts look promising at first blush, but none to date have really worked out.

I confess that I have not heard of TIPAtinnitus, which appears to be another such attempt.  The TIPAtinnitus website is still under construction, so there really is not much to go on there.  Here is an abstract from the site:

http://www.tipatinnitus.com/history_1.html

I caution you to note that the study is uncontrolled and has not been published in a scientific journal.  That's not necessarily the kiss of death, but it's something to keep in mind.

Anyway, I'm going to make a few calls and see what I can find out.

smn
crestline
    10/08/08 at 09:17 AM#3
Here is part of a note I received from Dr. Winkler last week:

Dr Salvi (Univ of Buffalo)is going to do PET scans before and after he turns the tinnitus off with the TIPA device to find out where the tinnitus comes from.

DrNagler
    10/08/08 at 01:05 PM#4
Elsewhere crestline wrote:

Dr. Winkler did write me back and said the TIPA device is being used by Dr. Salvi at Univ. of Buffalo with PET scans.. They check a patient with T using a PET scan and then use the TIPA device on the patient and then see how the PET changes the tinnitus signal in the brain ..

...........

Crestline, that may be what Dr. Winkler has told you, but it is inaccurate.  What you describe above is little more than a possibility for consideration at some point in the future.

Interesting that Dr. Winkler would invoke Dr. Salvi's name so prematurely in an e-mail communication with a potential customer such as yourself.

What's more interesting is that it would have been just about as easy for Dr. Winkler to do a double-blind randomized prospective study using 10 in the treatment arm and 10 in the control control arm as it was to do his retrospective study with 20 in the treatment arm and no controls.  So I wonder why he didn't!!??

Anyway, these are the kinds of things that are going through my mind at this early stage.  But I assure you that I hope every bit as much as the next person that Dr. Winkler is on to something.

And on the positive side, I am told on good authority by a researcher who met Dr. Winkler recently that he is a very nice man!

smn

crestline
    10/08/08 at 02:51 PM#5

I believe DR. Zeng, at UCI is also looking at low frequency for a tinnitus treatment. His story is on ATA webpage .

CPW151
    10/08/08 at 10:10 PM#6
Sigh!  Another non-double blinded study on it's way.  When someone comes up with a real cure would someone on this board, send me a PM.  In the meantime I'm going to take my tinnitus fishing this weekend. Never do hear it with a fish on the end of the line. 

Seriously, I hope they do come up with a cure but it sure helped to start turning mine around when I gave up looking for one and spending money to find one.  Did find some help and Dr. Nagler didn't even send me a bill - yet.

CPW 
Maccy
    10/09/08 at 02:25 AM#7
CPW,

I think you might have just reminded Dr. Nagler that his invoice hasn't been paid....yet !!!
Murasaki53
    12/02/08 at 09:03 AM#8
This is a link to the patent for the tipatinnitus device. There is a lot of additional information provided here on the theory which informs the device and the sounds it generates,  as well as its effects on those who have been treated with it.

It's well worth a read and I'd be interested to know what those better informed about things like 'non-sinusoidal pulsating electric waveforms' think:

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2008083429&IA=AU2007001960&DISPLAY=DESC


DrNagler
    12/02/08 at 11:01 AM#9
Mura, what's missing from the tipatinnitus patent application?

smn
Murasaki53
    12/02/08 at 03:05 PM#10
Well, the diagrams referred to are missing. It sounds like something that's being prepared for publication elsewhere in some journal.

There are also no citations for double blinded/placebo duplications of the trials of the device.
DrNagler
    12/02/08 at 03:20 PM#11
Mura posted:

There are also no citations for double blinded/placebo duplications of the trials of the device.

............

And what does that tell you?

smn

winterbridge55
    12/02/08 at 07:02 PM#12
Dr. Salvi is a very kind man who had answered my email once about the device and said that he was not conducting any research. In fact, he is retiring.  

Why do I feel that tinnitus is a snake oil magnet? I know someone as we speak who is in NYC for Phaseout at 1000.00 for 3 sessions and 1000.00 for the take home unit. This tipatinnitus device evidently goes for $3300 in Australia. At least it is cheaper than Neuromonics. It probably won't get approved in the US because the FDA is probably more strict. Don't they have to show a certified double blinded study before they get permission to sell it in the US?  


Why can't the pharmaceutical companies find where the noise is coming from in the brain so they can give us a pill? I would gladly pay $200 a month for it. I guess not enough people have severe tinnitus to make it worth their while. I believe a German pharmaceutical company Merz is in the process of working on a tinnitus drug called Neramexane

-Mark
Rob_in_Denver
    12/02/08 at 09:00 PM#13
winterbridge55 asked:

It probably won't get approved in the US because the FDA is probably more strict. Don't they have to show a certified double blinded study before they get permission to sell it in the US? 

Unfortunately, the FDA has no such requirement for tinnitus devices -- no requirement in fact that proves their effectiveness.  What they do require (for all devices used for any kind of hearing disorder) is a proof of safety and a restriction in terms of who can sell the device (usually a licensed audiologist).

Neuromonics exploits this fact by touting their device as "FDA cleared", tacitly implying that the FDA has somehow endorsed its effectiveness.  Unfortunately, No.

And you are right on target in terms of tinnitus being a magnet for snake oil salesmen.  There really has to be a special place in John Milton's backyard for those who prey on desperate folks who are truly suffering.  How some of these charlatans can live with themselves is beyond me.

Rob in Denver


CPW151
    12/02/08 at 10:35 PM#14
 How some of these charlatans can live with themselves is beyond me.

Rob in Denver
 
Of course you know how they live with themselves -  MONEY!

CPW


Murasaki53
    12/03/08 at 01:49 AM#15
Posts 4 and 12 are most telling: if this guy was truly on to something he would proceed more cautiously and not make the claims that he has. Linking oneself to Dr Salvi seems odd to me.

One other thing that bothers me is that when you Google the names of researchers in the field you generally find some papers for them, some previous publications.

I couldn't find anything for this guy.

He's also been working in private practice for a long time. I'm not sure whether there is the equivalent of the UK NHS in Australia. If there is, why hasn't he been operating within it?

It will be interesting to see whether this guy turns out to be a charlatan or a maverick who has made an interesting discovery.


sticky
    12/03/08 at 04:23 PM#16
Wow!

maybe i should go and knock on his door!

He lives just down the road from me!

winterbridge55
    12/03/08 at 05:35 PM#17

Geez right down the street. Maybe he will give you one for free. I heard they go for $3300 plus the cost of the ear molds.

Murasaki53
    12/04/08 at 01:21 AM#18
Is that $3300 Australian or US Dollars?


sticky
    12/04/08 at 04:18 PM#19
well in the next suburb anyway. I will call him today to say hello
sticky
    12/05/08 at 02:27 AM#20
ughhh, called but he was in a surgery.

Hopefully tomorrow
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