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Bbec and DrNagler,
                           I wouldn't normally intervene in this way to suggest a 'third way' but having read through your recent exchanges I wonder if you both might be getting a little ahead of yourselves here.

Isn't habituation a process that also partly involves the unconscious mind and happens in baby steps?

I'm asking this because after 14 months I'm still having some very bad times. But I'm also having some admittedly brief times when the tinnitus is screeching away madly and it doesn't bother me quite so much. And this dampening of reaction seems to have arisen quite naturally from 'time in the saddle'.

I also think that there can be a huge gap between one's intellectual understanding of tinnitus and one's experience of it and that maybe sometimes you have to just be patient in waiting for that gap to close.

Tinnitus also strikes me as being like a game of snakes and ladders. Just when you think you are getting a handle on it you slide down a snake (or one rears up and bites you). I'm finding this a bit today as my tinnitus has spiked right from the word 'go' this morning. But 5 minutes from now I'll be reading a fascinating book that will help me to counsel someone who is having a dreadfully rough time right now and later I'm meeting with a friend and we've got lots to talk about. At the stage I'm at I'm fairly sure that I will be aware of this spike a fair bit of the time but I'm not going to let it deflect me from what I have set out to do.

All this takes time and patience. The important thing is to stay in the game. Bbec, a couple of ladders for you were your trip to Sex and the City and your recent vacation. There will be more if you apply the principles in Henry and Wilson and stay receptive to the possibility of meaningful habituation.

Very well put, Murasaki.

I recently wrote that most of the words of wisdom on this site come from keyboards other than mine ... and you just proved it! 


Perfectly said. I am in awe of your wisdom, courage and optimism.

I really meant cognitive redirect. I don't expect 100% out of myself.

How do you manage t on the job may I ask?

Bbec, now is not the time to leave.  Now is the time to ask questions, now is the time to challenge statements from your perspective that you don't understand, now is the time to stop telling yourself that this thing called tinnitus is going to ruin  you life forever.  Dr. Nagler remembers I'm sure the conflict he and I got in a couple of years back on another thread.  I posted some really nasty comments and he responded with vengeance and rightly so.  But I needed help and through it all he hung in there with me - as did several others.  So I encourage you to stay with us, maybe not post for a little while if that's what you want to do but hang around.  Dr. Nagler used the wrong word when he said that he sympathizes with you - he and all of us empathize with you.  You can only do that when we have walked in your shoes and believe me, we have all been there. That's empathy to the inth degree.  It's tough.  It's hard to believe that others are suffering as much as you right now - but we have.  It is indeed a long process and a learning process.  A process that you have to tell yourself that  you can win.  If someone like me who has a pain tolerance of less than zero can make considerable progress so can you.  And yes, I can almost guarantee that if you follow the advise on this thread you will reach the point that you can start helping others.  I don't know if I have but I've have tried a little.  Everyone has to find their own way to do it at their own pace.  Some do TRT, CRT, I tried Neuromonics (can't recommend it), but I can without reservation recommend that you stay with us with an open mind and a willingness to "doing" things that work for you - and you WILL find them and you will get better.  It apparently never goes away and I'm struggling right now with the concept that I will never reach a time that I am not 100% aware of it all the time.  But I am reaching a point that life is getting back to normal and it doesn't control my ever waking moment or keep me from sleeping anymore. Maybe the best way to put it is that I have finally learned to stop fighting it because in doing so it gives it more power.  The only effective treatment that I know has a proven track record is right here on this thread.  Some medications may help for a time like Xanax and other so I've heard but the bottom line is that you do have the intestinal fortitude to put this tinnitus in its place and that is that it will become one of the lesser concerns of life you have to deal with.  Didn't mean this to be so lengthy but leaving now is not the thing to do - and I've been there.

CPW151 posted:

if you follow the advise on this thread you will reach the point that you can start helping others.  I don't know if I have but I've have tried a little.
Well you've certainly helped me. I look to your posts for regular inspiration. I'm just disappointed that I can't take one of those fish you regularly reel in to knock up a good meal for you as fish cookery is one of my hobbies.
CPW posted [in part]:

Dr. Nagler remembers I'm sure the conflict he and I got in a couple of years back on another thread.  I posted some really nasty comments and he responded with vengeance and rightly so.


You must have me confused with that stringplayer fellow.  I've never responded to you or anybody else with vengeance! 


I can without reservation recommend that you [Bbec] stay with us with an open mind and a willingness to "doing" things that work for you - and you WILL find them and you will get better.


I fully agree!


Excellent post, CPW.  Nothing beats the voice of experience. 


If you are reading this (and I hope you are) I can vouch for everything CPW says.  We all are here to help you, and it does get easier (as difficult as that is to believe).  However, there are things you need to understand and we can best help you by being direct about those things, as Dr. Nagler has tried to do.

Rob in Denver


If you are still reading this, just keep up your hope that you will be fine in the future, but you and all of us need lots and lots of patience, not just with our T, but also when things are not going our way. Just think of your kids when they started learning to walk. If they had quitted trying after falling many, many times, they would never get to walking as well as they can now. There is not much difference in our learning to live with T. If you are doing better than when you first had T, then it is an improvement however slow you think it is, and that is something you can bank on. All the best and hope you will be back.

Dr. Nagler posted: "You must have me confused with that stringplayer fellow.  I've never responded to you or anybody else with vengeance! "

Yep, you're right.  It was that stringplayer guy.  I think he might be an acquaintance of yours however.



CPW..i'm not at all sure if Stringplayer is an acquaintance of Dr. Nagler, ...however, it's pretty obvious they are both intelligent people, and well worth a listen, when they speak about Tinnitus and related issues ..
Micky ..
PLUS, stringplayer and I use the same syntax and punctuation conventions! 


PS - Check out the first few posts in the "welcome home" thread.

I am hoping like all the others that you are still logging on and reading the messages. We all hope that you keep in touch with us because it seems right now you need people who understand what you are experiencing. The people on this board are really the only one's who can share their experiences with you in the hope that it helps (and it does help...honest).

Please get back in touch and tell us that you are ok. I am worried about you because you were really reaching out and in need of helpful friendly advice and now ....silence...and thats a bit scary.

Just a quick note to say you are ok.

Dear CPW,

I know what you mean by some of the terms you use-
and I know you speak of tinnitus in terms that reflect their impact on your life-
but as just a suggestion- though I do appreciate knowing how this affects you-
and have no desire to minimize that in any way-
I think we need to be careful about the terms we use to describe things sometimes- as they may tend to get picked up and then used by others-
and perhaps their meanings skewed or distorted a bit,
and maybe also lead some others to believe that their situation is worse than that of others -
like seems to be has happened with the term reactive in regards to tinnitus-
I used to think that was something really unusual and rare- because I read about on some of the boards-
and I thought it may be harder to deal with because it was different-
but I have come to learn that tinnitus that does fluctuate is actually - by everything I read-
quite common- at least in among those who post on some of these forums.
And finding out that it was not that unusual surprised me-
 and somehow helped on a certain level - at least for me.
So even though the term is descriptive, I also appreciate the thoughts others voiced in a thread awhile back on that issue and think that we may want to be careful when talk about "coining" some terms.
I do know what you mean by your description though- and hope that your tinnitus will become much less intrusive, as time goes by.
(And hopefully in the not too distant future!)

With much respect, and best wishes to you,
And by the way-
CPW says-
And yes, I can almost guarantee that if you follow the advise on this thread you will reach the point that you can start helping others.  I don't know if I have but I've have tried a little.

CPW- many of your posts are inspirational!
To be able to see how someone who has really "been there" with respect to these challenges can turn things around-
and enjoy life - (even if some days are still better than others)
 and continue to do what they love- as you have done and are doing-
is inspiring.
Many times it takes time, persistence and patience - to learn how to cope -
and knowing others have been "there" and are now doing SO much better-
really can make a huge difference.
Thank you for sharing your journeys with us - I know some times are tougher than others- but knowing others have made it through, really does help.
As I have gone through so many phases with these hearing challenges,
 that is something that has had such a huge impact,
 and made a tremendous difference for me.
Because if others, who had seemingly been hit so hard by the same sort of challenges could make it through- and in many cases recover to such a huge extent-
that just reinforced my belief that I could do that as well.
And to have some on these boards so helpful as to help point the way-
and help along the path- is just wonderful.

Thank YOU for being one of those kind of people.
what is the name of the book by Dr. Pawel Jastreboff, that Dr. Nagler is referring to in his conversations with Bbec.  Thanks.

Tinnitus Retraining Therapy: Implementing the Neurophysiological Model by Pawel J. Jastreboff and Jonathan W.P. Hazell

Hi all. Just popped over from the other place. Very informative post, you just keep learning with htis. Perhaps i can lend a small contribution that may help from my experience.
With time my reactions to t went from average at best to extremely poor at first to average to exteemely good at best. This is of cource very good. With less reactions came lower percieved volume of t and less time i heard it. It just clicked that days when i was doing stuff i loved it was down to a squeek when i was alone, in silence it would ramp up. So stupid here noticed a pattern. I noticed i was the volume control. I knew the t wasnt louder justseemed so. So with all this aquired knowledge life was good. T didnt matter. T being heard was a nothing. But........

Even those who have done well can relapse. I have. Why is unknown and unimportant. Its just a fact. Relapse though is a natural experience. Its something we all go through with this.What can be said is that Rob Dr N and others are all correct in that with knowledge comes power so to speak. With each spike, relapse, recovery comes and with it strength.Recovery is quicker too. The harder you fight the harder it is to recover. The more you chill and accept the various quirks of this natural experience the easier it becomes and the easier the "habituation". Yes there will be good times, yes there may be bad times but one thing is certain, the good times do increase and the best way in my opinion to move forward is to wake up one day and realise, the sort of cure is looking at you each morning in the mirror.It will take time it can be tough at times but the tough times do get shorter and do get so much easier. Now its time for me to get back in the saddle. Hi ho silver!!!

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the well said inspiring post!
So much of what you say also seems so true to me regarding hyperacusis-
there are good days and not so good ones- and when the not so good ones show up- I need to (among other things) remember- I have gotten through them before.(easier said than done sometimes)
My sensitivities still go back and forth alot, depending on alot of factors and it does really need to be a "setback" that causes my hearing to be a little more on the sensitive side on any given day.
And I also think many of the things Rob, Dr DrNagler, and others have said are worth remembering- especially on those difficult days- knowing that t has settled down before and very likely will again- is such a soothing and calming thought- and one that is to me -
really worth remembering, when the next t spike hits. (and I do that- and it helps for me.) Though as I keep saying- thankfully, my t is not usually that intrusive, or loud. But those spikes can seem or be loud, and if I let them could be very distracting.

Thanks Mick for the good words!
(and thanks too, for the grin!)
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